Curse

HappyHands · Jul 19, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I don't charge for "monking," and I always pay my way for UW/FoW, with the exception of a host paying for everyone. In that case, if I get an exceptional drop, I'll then offer to pay the 1p fee to the host.

I don't play the game to accumulate cartoon money (but if some other monk gets pleasure from charging, good for them)... that just means I'll get a group all that faster.

Equally important, I don't want my monk's name to get screwed for taking money and then wiping out because I lagged or something equally stoopud. Sure, I might get a bad rep for saying "I like chocolate cake" in group, or "I have cheeseits in my loincloth." I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I'm not gunna get one for taking money and then having to read this over some corpse's head: "refund noob u suk!"

But I'm also the player that sells all my drops to merchants (yeah, I've even sold ecto to merchants...) because I don't want to waste my game time mapping around to hook up with a buyer--I'd rather be in a group doing something.

Lastly, is there a correlation between the WTS!!11 people and the Monk LFG 25p charge up front? I dunno.

Astral Paladin · Jul 19, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I would never pay for any member to join my group ever. Those i see advetising themselves i make a note of, and never party with them again.

I can only encourage others to do the same....this is ridiculous!

sledgeunderhill · Jul 19, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

I think the question monks considering charging for thier services should be asking themselves is:

"What sort of group "needs" a real healer instead of henchmen?"

and:

"Do you think you'll be able to keep that type of group alive?"

If you think about the nature of the missions, there are some times when the healing efforts should be devoted to keeping a mission NPC alive over healing another player. I'm thinking of the Thunderhead mission here.

Additionally, if you play in a group that makes a purposeful suicide run (to give another character the chance to make a goal), the human healer can change their tactics to cover that strategy, unlike what the NPC healer will do.

An incident happened to me last night - I was in the desert and saw a person offering free running to Elona and Destiny. I was impressed with their abilities and made a voluntary, private donation. It was a great way of saying "YOU ROCK" and I felt good about it. In the future, I probably will do more of this, especially to help the most valued players in a team, be they a nuker, mesmer, or whatnot.

The Amazing Krandor · Jul 19, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksci

So. Whats your opinion? And why?

My opinion is this:

There are two conceivable situations here:
1) You have completed the game, and are willing to lend your assistance and expertise to lower-level folks, at a price.
2) You are still going through the game.

In situation 1, I have no problem with anyone charging for their services. They are, in theory, providing something more than their sword-arm or spells to the group: experience and knowledge. Those are definitely marketable. If, however, all you do is hang back and heal, then you'd get no money from me. That level 20, and the knowledge that comes with it, is more valuable in my opinion than the size of your Healing Orison.

In situation 2, I have a huge problem. Unless you are undeniably the best at what you do, there is absolutely no reason, aside from ego, to asssume that you are more valuable to the party than is any other member. You are a support character, just like the other 5-7 members of the party. For every quest/mission/exploratory outing, there is a minimum viable party size in order to accomplish it with minimal casualties. If, from your perspective, that party size is anything other than 1 (meaning you can absolutely do it solo), then you have no business charging for your services. Why? Because you need the other folks every bit as much as they need you. That, and you already get a share of loot and experience, just like everyone else.

In essence, unless you are the Tuskeegee Airmen of Guild Wars, and can guarantee that nobody dies under your care -- ever -- no money for you, at least not from me. Because "adequate" can be found anywhere, including, as mentioned, with the henchwomen.

And if you do find enough folks who are willing to pay anyway, it will just be a matter of time until everyone starts charging for their services, with elementalists then warriors up next (of course, warriors already charge for various "runs", so maybe the Monks are just following their lead), followed by the less-used classes (once their value begins to be better known). At which point, the whole thing becomes silly. Of course, I think it's silly now.

Del12 · Jul 19, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

I see a theme here. Most people here haven't made it to the last 4-5 missions. I agree that henchie healers can get you thru most of the game, but those last few missions, no chance. And that's where I realized the true deficiency of monks in this game. It was painful sitting around for 30-60 minutes waiting for a monk, then not even winning the mission first try (or second or third). So I can see why some of you would never pay, having not gotten there yet. But I can promise you that when you do, either you'll spend a LOT of time waiting, or change your view on paying a small fee for a monks help.

IxChel · Jul 19, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

I'm a monk that likes to help people; I'm not into soloing (farming). Therefore, I don't have a nice steady stream of income -- and frankly, after helping 2-3 groups through a given area, my drops suck. Further, I bring much more than just healing, I bring experience. Frankly, I've been seriously considering charging a nominal fee (1 platinum per run) just like you pay when entering the Underworld. Perhaps if people have paid cash they might even behave better.

What a great idea. I think I'm going to try it. I could really use the cash.

Algren Cole · Jul 19, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

I see a theme here. Most people here haven't made it to the last 4-5 missions. I agree that henchie healers can get you thru most of the game, but those last few missions, no chance. And that's where I realized the true deficiency of monks in this game. It was painful sitting around for 30-60 minutes waiting for a monk, then not even winning the mission first try (or second or third). So I can see why some of you would never pay, having not gotten there yet. But I can promise you that when you do, either you'll spend a LOT of time waiting, or change your view on paying a small fee for a monks help.

i've done through thunderhead keep with henchie monks...i refuse to pay a monk to do his job..it's not going to happen. The henchwoman works perfectly fine for my needs...I'll heal myself.

Ensign · Jul 19, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

"What sort of group "needs" a real healer instead of henchmen?"

The groups of terrible players who have been stuck trying to beat Thirsty River for a week. The kinds of players that single-handedly destroy parties through their own incompetence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

"Do you think you'll be able to keep that type of group alive?"

Yes. Well, to a degree. Get a full group of complete morons and no, there's no way I'll be able to keep them all alive. I will be able to res them over and over again until they get the point, though. I've managed to keep a group of complete newbs alive against the monk boss in Thirsty River for over half an hour. The guy in Ascalon City armor was at -60% DP and *knew* he wasn't going to get heals, because I wasn't going to waste my energy on him. We won anyway when the boss decided to suicide.

Why can Monks charge and not the other classes? Because Monk is the *only* class that can effectively cover up another player's incompetence. You could have the best Warrior on your team, but that isn't going to help anyone if some dork in starter armor decides to run up front and pull aggro everywhere. A nuker? Please. But a good Monk can keep even the worst team alive long enough for them to experience some success. Hence the 'need' for Monks - people simply are not good enough to beat the PvE themselves.

Peace,
-CxE

Del12 · Jul 19, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

i've done through thunderhead keep with henchie monks...i refuse to pay a monk to do his job..it's not going to happen. The henchwoman works perfectly fine for my needs...I'll heal myself.

Well Algren maybe you'll get lucky and find a monk for the 'fire island' missions without waiting long. Maybe not, and you'll take alecia. Man, I how I wish this game had some kinda spectator mode so that you could watch people try to go thru those missions with henchies. That would be a good laugh.

And as for someone noted above, it's much more than healing. It's experience and knowledge of how the mission goes. Which, actually I think is much more valuable than the healing. So, technically I guess a warrior or ranger or somebody that has done the mission many times could charge for services. But they don't have the added value of being 'rare' as monks are for those missions.

Hakaido · Jul 19, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I didn't bother reading through the 3 pages of messages.... but like anyone else... I've got my own opinion. I've got a level 20 Primary warrior who now has all secondary professions.

Also realized that there was a real lack of high level monks or monks that weren't charging 4 or 5 plat to join a party. So I started one.

He's about level 15 now.... and I've already realized what happens during the course of events that causes some monks to start charging for services.

Now the following is just MY outlook.... disagree if ya like, I don't care... it's just one Monks opinion.

I've only got this character as far as Sanctum Cay.... and already I'm sick of the demanding, insulting and stupid characters I've partied with.

Dead E/Me says: "Come on monk, do your job damnit!"
My thoughts are: a.) if the Elementalist wants to run in tank... he's too stupid to live and i'm not going to waste mana on him that I need to focus on the two tanks
b.) Your in no position to give me orders

Dead Nec/war says: "some healer you are... next time pay attention!"
My thoughts are: A.) I was paying attention, but due to uncontrolable laughter watching you trying to tank I couldn't help ya.
B.) If the necro wants to tank run in and tank... he's too stupid to live and i'm not going to waste mana on him that i need to focus on the two tanks.
C.) If 7 health regen bars and heal other can't keep you alive long enough for the skill to recycle... your too weak to tank... perhaps you should run back to the main group next time?

Dead party leader says: "Your the worst monk I've seen.. you suck! now f*cking rez me!"
My thoughts are: A.) This is the first party I've been in where the leader is dumb enough to bring 6 warriors, 1 monk and a ranger....
B.) Vengence is fun to cast right about now when you think I've cast rez

The list goes on and on.....

Don't get me wrong... I've partied with plenty of mature and polite people. It's the mouthy, demanding, disrespectful and rude people that ruin it...

So yeah.... If a party full of ignorant, impolite and mouthy punks wants a monk for their party... chances are you'll be paying for it. I read someone say they don't aggree with people charging money for doing their job....
Well guess what makes a job a job..... when you get payed...

I reserve charity for those rare party's filled with polite, thoughtfull and mature people.

Lady Kajira · Jul 19, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I think it is BS, I would never pay anyone for any service. I also will write down their name and spread it around to my Guild mates and other friends to make sure that person is never used on a team that I or my friends are on.

But then again it has to do with the screwed up economy, peeps paying way to much for cool looking weps that do not more damage than a standard one that has the same damage content. Peeps paying 15k for armour that is no better than 1.5 armour it only looks cooler...

It will continue that some stupid peeps pays for these services or whatever, till the economy is fixed. 15k armour should have more protection than 1.5 armour, Rare and Gold weps should have a higher damage content...not just cooler looking. Those that charge for their services, more power to then if they can get away with it. But, I will never pay nor neither will my friends get scammed by these players.

Bingley Joe · Jul 19, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Man.. Some of you people really need to look up the meaning of the words "scam", "scammer", "scamming" and "scammed".

Arthur Eld · Jul 19, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I think the concept of paying someone to play the game is horrible. I realize there's a shortage of competent monks later in the game, but come on guys. A monk's job is to keep people alive. Do Mesmer's have the right to charge everytime they save your ass by disrupting that meteor spell? Or should an elementalist get paid for every second they bombard the enemies with a fire storm? Someone asking to be paid to do what their character was made to do is a terrible idea, in my opinion. So to answer your question, no, I do not agree with paying someone to quest with, for the previously stated reasons. What ever happened to playing a game for fun?

Bingley Joe · Jul 19, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Eld

What ever happened to playing a game for fun?

What if it's fun for him to make his money by taking others through missions they aren't able to complete?

What if it's fun for the players who pay him to complete the missions?

So in other words: what if everyone involved in the transaction is having fun?

Lethal_Poison · Jul 19, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

While Im not a fan of the charge-for-service deal....I have to disagree with some things that are being said.

First of all, the people talking about how "all classes serve a purpose, and should charge...blah blah blah"

No actually they dont. Im sure Im going to be flamed for this, but every mission in the game can easily be beaten without a mesmer, necro, or especially ranger. While the missions certainly can be beaten with any assortment of players as long as they are good, its much more difficult if you are lacking a monk, good area of effect damage, and tanks. Since nobody wants to play healing monks or warriors because they are arguably the boringest characters, yet make the base of most parties, that automatically puts a premium on them.

Characters like Rangers on the other hand, have no real need and serve no direct purpose, outside of designated puller. They dont do the damage of an elementalist, or can heal unless they carry a monk secondary, and arent particuliarly adept tanks. So at the end of the day, why wouldnt you be better off with an additional elementalist? Even though this fact remains, about 50% of characters I see are Rangers.

That is why a ranger doesnt deserve to be paid for anything. A monk, because they chose to play a boring character that nobody else wants to, and also simutaneously serve as a building block to most teams, has elevated themselves to a premium level, while overused next to useless PvE classes like Rangers are a dime a dozen. Its supply and demand in its most raw form.

Zaklex · Jul 19, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Here's another angle, I was waiting at Hell's Precipice with my Wa/Mo last night, not getting any takers when someone else leading a group OFFERED 10k gold to any monk that could get them through the mission. Now 10k gold is nothing to sneeze at so I immediately changed accounts and characters and volunteered, the caveat was that payment would be make upon successful completion of the mission, which I had no problem with for such a large sum, I and one other monk took up the offer as they were looking for 2 monks. Yes, there were deaths, but not once did we have to restart the mission, except the first time when someone dropped and we needed to replace them(obviously not the monks fault). Would I actually charge for my services, I have considered it, but I want to get my other characters through the game before going that route. I only took this one opportunity as the group leader was OFFERING to pay 10k, I didn't ask for that amount nor did the other monk, we completed the mission and got our payment, the group was satisfied, I was satisfied.

Bingley Joe · Jul 19, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaklex

we completed the mission and got our payment, the group was satisfied, I was satisfied.

OUTRAGEOUS!!! I can't believe you would scam them like that. We must put a stop to this at once!

Teufel Eldritch · Jul 19, 2005, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

I see a theme here. Most people here haven't made it to the last 4-5 missions. I agree that henchie healers can get you thru most of the game, but those last few missions, no chance. And that's where I realized the true deficiency of monks in this game. It was painful sitting around for 30-60 minutes waiting for a monk, then not even winning the mission first try (or second or third). So I can see why some of you would never pay, having not gotten there yet. But I can promise you that when you do, either you'll spend a LOT of time waiting, or change your view on paying a small fee for a monks help.

I have completed the game 3 times now & I still have yet to pay anyone, let alone a Monk, for doing what they are supposed to.

As for henchies not being viable for endgame missions... incorrect. I have used henchies & completed said missions. Pic

Diomedes · Jul 19, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

I have completed the game 3 times now & I still have yet to pay anyone, let alone a Monk, for doing what they are supposed to.

As for henchies not being viable for endgame missions... incorrect. I have used henchies & completed said missions. Pic

Nice pic, I beat the game the other day with no one in my party besides myself and the henchies. I had first gone out just to skill cap but then ended up doing the whole thing for fun. Had I know that this conversation was coming up I would have taken a screen cap of it.

-Diomedes

Darksci · Jul 19, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Oooo 10K is quite alot lol. i was only thinking about charging like 200gp per head.